Schmooze with Suze

What Happens When Three Different Paths Share the Same Direction? My Guest: Three Mikes on Mic Co-Hosts- Mike Hightower, Mike Miller & Mike Tolbert

• Suzie Becker • Season 6 • Episode 19

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The fastest way to lose a city is to stop listening to it.

That's the topic at the heart of this conversation with Mike Hightower, Mike Miller, and Mike Tolbert- the hosts of Three Mikes on Mic Podcast. We examine what podcasts can do that much of today's media cannot: restore context, reward curiosity, and create space for thoughtful civic conversation about Jacksonville, Florida.

In this episode, we explore:

  •  Why long-form conversations create nuance in a short-form world. 
  •  How Three Mikes on Mic was built around a shared love for Jacksonville. 
  •  What has changed in journalism, and why audiences increasingly expect information in smaller, faster bites. 
  •  Why civility, trust, and respectful disagreement still matter in politics and public policy. 
  •  The difference between giving people what they want to hear and what they need to hear. 
  •  Why transparency. Accountability. And "turning on the light" remain the best disinfectants. 
  •  The JEA scandal, and the public servants whose integrity often went unnoticed. 
  •  What gives these three community leaders hope for Jacksonville's future, from mentoring the next generation to emerging civic talent. 
  •  How the St. Johns River and Jacksonville's expanding riverfront parks are reshaping the city's identity and quality of life. 
  •  A thoughtful discussion on the proposed homestead exemption amendment and its potential impact on local services, infrastructure, and the future of Florida communities.

If you care about Jacksonville's future, local politics, public policy, civic leadership, and the power of informed conversation, this episode is for you.

Mike Hightower is a longtime civic leader whose career has focused on education, public policy, and strengthening Northeast Florida through collaboration, research, and community engagement.

An award-winning broadcaster, veteran journalist, and longtime political observer, Mike Miller has spent decades covering Jacksonville's government, elections, and civic life. He is the founder and co-host of Three Mikes on Mic, bringing historical perspective and journalistic insight to every conversation. 

Mike Tolbert is a respected political strategist, communications professional, and veteran of Jacksonville government who has advised leaders across administrations. Known for his deep understanding of local politics and public policy, he brings practical experience and thoughtful analysis.

Learn more about Three Mikes on Mic: MikesOnMic.com

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Why Podcasts Still Matter

SPEAKER_02

Several years ago, I started Shemoose with the Seuss for one reason, curiosity. But long before I ever sat behind a microphone, I was an avid podcast listener. I was drawn to conversations that went beyond the headlines and gave people the time and space to tell their own stories. I've always been the person asking the follow-up question that makes someone pause before answering. Because that's usually where the real connection begins. And in a world of 30-second clips and seven-second reels, podcasting offers something revolutionary, uninterrupted conversation. Maybe that's why millions of people keep pressing play. Just five years ago, about a third of Americans listen to a podcast each month. Today, that number has grown to more than half of Americans over the age of twelve. That's approximately 158 million monthly listeners. Nearly three-quarters of Americans have consumed a podcast because they're looking for something that's becoming increasingly rare. Context, nuance, and conversations that trust them enough to think for themselves. That inspired me to create a podcast of my own. Not because I wanted to be the star, but because I wanted to be the vehicle that brought interesting people and important conversations together. I realized I didn't want to just know what people thought. I wanted to understand how their informed background and lived experiences that it contributed to what they thought and why they thought that way. My hope was simple. If we could become a little more curious and a little less certain, maybe we could begin to bridge some of the divides that increasingly silo us. I wanted to know the story behind the people instead of looking up the people behind the story. I wanted to understand the who and the why behind what and how. My husband has spent his career as an investigative journalist. His job is to uncover waste, fraud, abuse, and understand the corruption by asking difficult questions that hold people accountable. And thank goodness for people like him. But I've realized my lane is different. I'm fascinated by the helpers, the builders, the mentors, the people making community stronger long before anyone notices just how much weight that city can now lift. I don't want to expose the villain. I want to understand the heroes. And that's what drew me to Three Mics on Mike. As someone raising two children at Jacksonville and hoping to retire here someday, I don't want just the headlines. I want the heartbeat of this city. So here's what I wonder. Why are millions of people choosing to spend an hour listening to a conversation between people they've never met? What is it about podcasts that keep us coming back? Have podcasts become the modern day front porch? Are we simply creating content? Or are we helping shape culture? And that's what we're going to tackle today. Hi, I'm Suze, a busy Gen X mom who quite frankly wanted to grow up like the Brady Bunch. But how could I being raised in the shadow of Schindler's List? So this means I've spent a lifetime navigating these mixed messages we get hit with daily. You know those conversations where we wonder if it's safe to speak our minds? Can we share our experiences, voice our fears and concerns? Or should we just keep our mouths shut? Well, too bad. I need to know, but I'm no expert. So I'm going to schmooze the experts and get their thoughts on why. So when we engage with our kids or our colleagues or the countless committees of what we interact with, we can do it with kindness, a self of confidence, a self-confidence, and maybe even a bit of humor. And if this sounds like your cup of coffee, welcome to Schmooze with Too.

Meet The Three Mics

SPEAKER_02

Today I'm joined by three men whose collective experience spans decades of leadership, for public service, for communications, of our politics, of business, and civic engagement in Northeast Florida. Mike Hightower is one of Jacksonville's most respected civic leaders so far. His career has been defined by developing leaders, building relationships, and helping shape the direction of our community. His commitment to mentoring future generations is so significant that the Jackson Chambers prestigious Hightower Fellowship bears a near name. Mike Tolbert has spent much of his career at the intersection of politics, public policy, and storytelling. A trusted advisor to numerous civic leaders and elected officials. He possesses an encyclopedic knowledge of Jacksonville's history and the people who helped shape it. If Jacksonville has a memory keeper, Mike Tolbert is certainly one of them. As co-host of the Three Mics on Mike, he helped transform decades of media experience into conversations that inform, challenge, and entertain. His thoughtful interviewing style reminds us that sometimes the most important thing we can do isn't speak. It's listen. Together they represent something that's increasingly rare in today's media landscape. A place where ideas are exchanged, stories are shared, and communities are built one conversation at a time. As a loyal listener and a true fangirl, I'm thrilled to welcome the three mics on mic, from mics on mic to Schmooz with Suits.

SPEAKER_06

Whoa! Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

So thank you for being here, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_06

Our pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

It's a privilege. Three successful men, three different paths. What is the common thread that brought the three of you together?

SPEAKER_04

I I think we have to let Mike Bill Mike Miller is the one who reached out to Mike Tolberti. So we're gonna. This is so it's his fault that there are the three of mine.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, you can blame me for this, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you. I'll blame you happily.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you listening in too.

SPEAKER_03

Can I tell you what I think the common thread is? Yes.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I I think the common thread is I think the common thread is Jacksonville. Oh. All three of us have over decades invested a lot in this community and have gotten a lot back from this community. And I I think what what really brought us together was how do we talk about what we've done? Not what we've done, but what where we've been, the experiences we've shared each other with. How do we take that and translate it into something? It was it was Mike Miller's idea that we do this. Uh no question about that. But I do think it's it's it's a love of Jacksonville uh that they brought this all this about.

SPEAKER_04

I I totally, I I totally get that. And I think from that, um, and Mike Miller can bring this up, but I I you know I've known Mike Talbert for 54 years. And we have we've been on the same side, we've been against each other. But the one thing, everything you said about Mike Talbert is absolutely right. But the one thing about Mike Talbert, Chapsonville first. I mean, first and foremost, I mean he is a uh he is a worthy opponent, but he is a kick butt advocate for Jacksonville. And that respect is is iron tied with me.

SPEAKER_02

So, Mike Miller, what made you decide

Building An Independent Local Show

SPEAKER_02

to take kick butt and taking names and combine it behind a microphone?

SPEAKER_04

We had pictures on him, we had black or white and color.

SPEAKER_05

Both.

SPEAKER_04

And I have the negatives.

SPEAKER_05

Glossy, glossy and math. Um my perspective, and and of course they're both correct when Jacksonville was a common thread that brought the three of us together. But my perspective, because of my media background, had a different genesis to it. Um, I was a huge fan of a program that was on Showtime called The Circus. Yeah. The greatest political show on earth. And it was a great conversational program between three guys who loved and hated each other and just sat around a table at a bar or a restaurant and talked about current events and politics mainly. Then I coupled that idea with what we used to do on WJCT, which was pollcast. And realized as as I thought about that, and I witnessed, of course, the circus, we really didn't have anything in Jacksonville that that in any way looked like either of those two programs anymore.

SPEAKER_06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

So take nothing away from JCT and First Coast Connect, and uh everyone who's done that show, from Melissa to Ann, have done a great job on it. And I'm not taking anything away from that. But by not being associated with a radio or a TV station, we were more independent and we were more able to really open up and tell people what our perspectives are. Perceptions are, you know, our uh observations and what's the third one I've ever got observations versus. Perceptions and I forget what we're almost at a blank on that. Opinions. No, no, no. We are very careful not to put that word in the byline.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

But we we slip. Yeah, we do slip. Our thought. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Well, but anyhow, that that was really it. That there was nothing like that going on in Jacksonville. Uh I'll be very candid. I missed being on radio and TV. Uh very much so. I mean, that was my life for 35 years, uh, and decided to stop it when we when we went off the year in Jacksonville in order to stay here uh and then look for a different road to travel, and that's when I got more deeply involved in politics. So between the media and the politics, I said this is going to be a perfect show. I've got a Republican, I've got a Democrat, and as Mr. Hightower likes to refer to me, I'll be the ringmaster of this thing. And just try to tell each of them to go back to their respective corners when they need to. Or if necessary, go to them a little bit to get them to talk.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. So, Mike Miller, I want to just spin off

Short Attention Spans And Media Change

SPEAKER_02

on that whole idea of media. We've gone from three television networks and one morning newspaper and a couple of stations on the radio that people typically listen to, to an endless stream of content that's competing for our attention every second. Has journalism changed or has the audience changed, or both? Both.

SPEAKER_05

Both. Of course. The industry has definitely changed. Um and I'll tell you there's there's a term that was used back in the 70s, which I think was the springboard for all of the change, and it was called LMA, which was local management agreement. And that would be if you found a national company who decided they were going to bring their people into town to run the radio station for that larger company. Right. Not the same as syndication, not the same as ownership, it was just an agreement. But because of that, you had a lot of people who were never here, knew nothing about Jacksonville, they were here for the business of media. And they took it over as a money-making organization. And I think that is what's really inspired what you're seeing in the changes as far as media is concerned. Now, the the listener or the viewer has become attuned to that now, where they like it that way. Go back to USA Today for just a second. If you remember the original USA Today, and I don't read it that often, so I'm not sure how the format is today, but you never had a jump page in USA Today. Every story was about three to four paragraphs long. Yes. It was no jump to A6 or to B12 or anything like that. It was all right there. The story was there. People wanted smaller bites of information because their lives were too busy. Even with our podcast, and I don't know if you get, you know, the the analytics from Schmoozworth-Sueze, but uh I always look at time spent listening. Which I also used to do when I was on radio talk show. Didn't matter with music because they popped off when they didn't hear a song they like. But it talked, it's can you grab them and can you keep them? And even with ours, I noticed that a majority of people who listen to us listen to us for less than 10 minutes. Out of a 30-minute show.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_05

And in many cases, two minutes.

SPEAKER_02

Is it because the attention span has changed and people want that bite-sized?

SPEAKER_05

Two things. One, do I like this guest to what they're talking about? If not, goodbye. And number two, they do want smaller bites and they want a condensed version. They want the reader's digest. We used to call it the reader's digest version of something. Remember that? Oh, yeah. That goes back a little bit. But that I think that's really where we are with the appetite of the of the reader, the viewer, and the listener.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. What about you? You've seen the landscape of the leadership change, the politics change. I grew up in the 1900s where bipartisan was a lot more favorable, and moderates really ran the show. How have you been able to navigate seeing that people are maybe not interested in listening for that 30

Civility, Context, And Jacksonville First

SPEAKER_02

minutes when the guest is somebody that they don't even know, they don't know yet about it?

SPEAKER_04

It's it's I not not to be crude, and sometimes it's a crapshoot. Uh I, you know, I I think coming back, if I can circle back to why the three of us are doing that, I think one of the things that we try to do is by one Mike, you know, Mike Colbert being the expert he is, and and then Mike Miller, and then for my background, is that why everybody wants a a bite of what it is. What we think is what we know is missing is the context of what they're hearing. And I think when you kind of think of the diverse background and the personalities of the three of us, I think maybe that's what either keeps them one minute or keeps them on there for for 30 minutes, is the three of us, as different as we are, it's it's about Jacksonville. And I think that's one of the things I I'm gonna take a guess from the time we started three years ago. I think that that's one of the things that I've heard is one, they realize that we're all of us are jacks first. One, we've reached an age where we pretty much say what we want, which I think is in some ways refreshing, uh to well at least to the three of us. And dangerous. And dangerous. But I think the other thing is uh we try the fact is that we're all great friends and we trust and respect each other. So we have fun with each other. And I candidly, when you listen on watch TV, the shrillness, uh I grew up in Mike and I, all of us grew up where I talk about my industry, or I'm talking about Mike Talbert. I mean, we were all, all three of us in our in our each of our professionals. We were very competitive. I mean, we, you know, did what we had to do to win. But let me tell you, it came five o'clock. You got together with the person you just worked against all day, and you went out and had a drink, had dinner, Christmas or whatever the holiday was, you know, whether it be Hanukkah, whether it be whatever the case, you got together and said, hey, we're all in this together. And I think that's what's missing. And I one of the things that I appreciate about the other two mics, they're one, they're professionals, but there's a sense of both of them of how they have how they have made the reputation is through civility. And it is desperately missing now. So and the three of us want it's a large axle, but we we we like the idea that we can have fun with each other. It's not personal, but there's a civility, and we all three miss that. We talk about it. We talk a lot. We we get the podcast comes you know once a week, but we talk during the week.

SPEAKER_02

Mike Tolford, that's gonna pivot to you because as as you look at the political landscape, tell me about it.

SPEAKER_03

Let me try to respond. I can't hear you, but let me try to respond what I heard you. I thought I heard you ask. One of the reasons we do a lot of what you you seem to be doing. We introduce it's not necessary that everybody knows everybody who's on our podcast. Uh, they don't have to be friends or be familiar. Because I think what we do is we introduce new people and new ideas. Uh we've had we've done 135 episodes now. And my guess is we've probably had a hundred different guests. We've had some repeat. We had the mayor this last time for the fourth time. Um and going to the media, don't leave out uh Florida tributary in Jacksonville today. Uh, there are new forms of media out there that are trying to fill gaps and doing a pretty good job of that. Um, and we have a we've had a number of guests from the media. We've tried to get your husband on, but he won't come.

SPEAKER_02

He won't come on mine either. Don't feel bad. He turns all of us down.

SPEAKER_04

An equal, equal opportunity to turn her down.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Disappoints us each. So have podcasts become the new modern day front porch where we're having these conversations and willing to listen through to the end of the answer as opposed to knowing it's going to the cutting room floor, it's going to be edited out, or when you discuss today's modern landscape of media, everybody's got sort of a perspective that they're walking in, understanding that's what their audience wants. And so to keep that audience captive, they're going to give them the yes man routine. Why are you not fearful about people turning you off?

SPEAKER_06

We don't care. We don't get paid by the listener. In fact, we don't get paid at all.

SPEAKER_02

Um I know how that feels, which is why I have no objection to asking the uncomfortable questions.

SPEAKER_04

You know, I have to, I'm sorry, I have to say that when you say turn me off. I, you know, I've spent my life dialing for dollars from people, you know, you know, and so no was something I got used to. So you know, I tell everybody a good fundraiser had a terrible dating habit in high school, had a terrible dating habit. They heard no a lot. You live for the one yes. You know, so I mean, we we you know when you look at Mike Toler, Mike Miller and myself, we we've been doing this for 50 some for 50 years, and we're sort of at a point that we I I candidly, we're kind of okay where we are, and we're okay with each other, but we're we're more than okay with Jacksonville, and we think as three old Cromudgeons, we got something to share.

SPEAKER_05

And there's it real quickly, too, because I want to hear what Tilbert has to say to this, but um you have to understand, and we went into this with this thought three years ago. We're not a mass audience program at all, and we know that. And we're not trying to be. If if I wanted to reformat this program, our program, into more of a mass audience type program, I would completely format it differently than what we're doing now. Because I know that this all we want, to be honest with you, is the important people to be watching this. Right. We want the decision makers, we want the elected officials, uh, we want the the the, if you will, the business community. Um this is the level of people that we really are looking for. I don't want MAGA people on my show, I don't want social them uh social uh socialist democrats on my show, I don't want neo-Nazis on my show. I'm not looking for that kind of stuff, which is titillating to an audience, but at the same time, it it restricts you and and it's not our core audience. Yeah. Tobert, did I did I say that correctly? You're the wordsmith.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you did. Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Well, thanks, Susie. We'll see you later.

SPEAKER_03

The only thing we the only part that we ever leave, well, I try to get left on the on the floor uh after uh going through the editing is some things that Hightower sometimes says.

SPEAKER_02

So I appreciate and I respect what you're saying. It's the thought leaders and the stakeholders that you want to bring to a table where the table is big enough that everyone who's interested in Jacksonville will be finding a seat at. You're not looking for the people who are there just for the disruption, even though the algorithm typically lends itself to outrage over understanding. You're looking to come to some kind of agree to disagree in the most extreme cases.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, but I but I'm gonna take a leap of faith here. Uh is that in listening when you've when Mike Miller was doing his on radio, and particularly with with when you look at uh Talbert's background of working with mayors and and the stuff that I've done and all that. You know, one of the things that we we tried to do is it was really about policy. We can you know, now uh periodically, uh you know, uh Talbert and I would go at it, he's he's more of a red meat guy than I am. Uh, you know, seriously. But what we really want to do is on the podcast is not be disrespectful to the people who are making decisions, but remind them, guys, you don't have to be shrill and you don't have to be disrespectful. And also your behavior, good, bad, or helpful, is gonna drive public policy. Yes. The three of us have been around along long enough, around long enough, and that's where Mike Tolerit is, because he he probably knows more about uh consolidation than anyone. Is there was a the reason for consolidation was we had pettiness, we had corruption, we had bad things going on in our city, and a group of men and women got together and said enough is enough. And from my personal perspective, I'm I'm worried that some of the behavior out there is I'm we're looking at Deja Vu all over again, and it scares me.

SPEAKER_02

So between the three of you, you've witnessed Jacksonville's wins, losses, scandals, breakthroughs,

Leadership Character And Public Trust

SPEAKER_02

and reinventions. Mike Tolbert, what's the difference between a politician who tells people what they want to hear and a leader who tells people what they need to hear?

SPEAKER_03

I've been very fortunate in my career. I've been very fortunate in my career that um have worked for a lot of politicians, that most of them were pretty straight shooters. Um they need coaching on how to say how often what to say. Um but and I guess the the difference is character. Uh the difference is is is is just do you have the character to do what's right and say the right thing, what you're supposed to do, as opposed to trying to nuance everything and uh and lie about stuff. I mean we've got guys up there now that just they don't mind lying about anything. Um and and somehow I'm I'm like hightower. Uh I've I've been around this stuff a long time and and I I see things that trouble me greatly deeply about some of the things that have been done uh and flirting with uh uh things that ought not to happen anymore. Uh it it's just it we need and again this goes back to the media in a good way, uh, because we don't have a lot of people with eyes on anymore like we used to. Uh and so they they they have more places to go and stay out of the light. And I've always been one of these guys that believe that you know, if you turn on the light, the roaches will flee. And we just need more lights out there. And I every once in a while, I think we we we we help with that. Um it may be by accident, uh, but I think we help with it. I I know for a fact, and and all three of us know for a fact, uh we get the attention of some of the folks we try to get their attention, uh, because we we hear from them one way or the other, or they try to do something one way or the other. And that doesn't scare us, that makes us kind of happy. It pleases us a lot.

SPEAKER_04

I think it it encourages us and uh say keep keep doing. We got their attention.

SPEAKER_02

Well, in that show Dragnet, there was that line, just the facts, ma'am. Yeah, and I haven't seen that in journalism in a long time until you three showed up. And recently I saw, before you sent it to me, on social media, a local stakeholder, thought leader, opinion maker said that there's four journalists left in Jacksonville. You three are the top three. I messaged him privately and said, Who's the fourth? But in your opinion, what would you say about objective journalism? And are podcasts, because it's now the leading media landscape that's growing faster than any of the other ones, is there a responsibility that podcasters have in this space?

SPEAKER_04

Uh Mike, you this is your that's your wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_05

One of the things that um, and I congratulate you as well, Susie, for this, because we've been told by our production people that for a podcast, for any podcast to be on for three years or longer is really very unusual. Most of the podcasts that you hear on there have been around maybe for a month or two and they're gone. Now, there are a number of reasons for that. First of all, there's a thousand of them in every community. So your competition for people's attention is very, very difficult. But um people run out of ideas to do it. It may be a financial situation, but with the traditional media, you had the traditional time that they were there, and they had their, they were able to build up their institutional knowledge of a city to help them in their reporting. With a lot of podcasts, it's not. It's just it's just a quick in and out for a lot of people who are just trying it out, and then they just fold. You know, never hear from them again. Um But is but and Tolbert, you can help me out with this one as well. I mean, Mike Tobert had probably one of the best media outlets in town when I was working on the radio, and that was inside source.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. You know, yeah, that helped me become a legend in my own mind. I mean, I could I could take what I could write I could take what Talbert says, you know, re-re not not even rework it, tell my boss or the people I'm working with, and they just thought I was brilliant, you know.

SPEAKER_05

Uh what people don't know is that the fax machine companies invested in my because they knew so many people were taking the one subscription and sending it out to 150 people so he wasn't making any money on it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, he wasn't but but that kind of goes back to to Mike's point of why why we're after three years. When people when we start talking about whether it'd be Talbot, we're talking about consolidation, whatever we're talking about, there is a institutional knowledge or an institutional understanding of what's doing. So do the people like Mike Tolbert just said, they're listening to us because uh we don't Yes, some of them we do pop, but it's because we believe behavior or the lack of public policy is driving that.

SPEAKER_02

Accountability.

SPEAKER_04

Accountability and transparency. Yeah. And and and I I think I think Mike is plus when we got started, Mike Tolbert I remember the first time we got started. Mike Tolbert said, I want one thing to happen out of this thing. I want us to have fun. And that has been through that. So the that's really, I think, is one of the things that we have had fun with. We have fun with each other. Yep. I I really believe that's part of it. Talbert, chime in.

SPEAKER_03

Can I go back to that Facebook post that you mentioned, Susie? Of course. Uh that was by our good friend Stephen Dare. That was by our good friend Stephen Dare. Yeah. And I think I read it different from you. I thought what he said was there are only four reporters left at the Times Union. Um, I think he he was he was incredibly gracious and kind to us and that Facebook post. Um and it and it did make our day. There's no question about it. I read that as that's what there are only four left at the Times Union. Right. Uh and I saw your I saw your response, and and I'm and I started counting in my head who's there. And I think there were a little bit more than four, right? There are. But that's what that was about.

SPEAKER_02

It's interesting that you say that. So when you talk about the landscape of Jacksonville over the last half a century, if you could bring all of the mayors that you've worked with, dealt with, had conversations with, had cocktails with, and put them around a table, what would be one topic that has not really been addressed as it should be? What's one thing we covered that you are uncomfortable with this landscape of lack of etiquette, decorum? What's something that gives you hope when you can look back at the last 50 years and say we need more of this? Let's bring this back.

SPEAKER_04

I I I want to go to Tobert. I think we'll go to Tobert and we can chime in because Mike Mike has been around since statehood. He's been around since statehood, so he was here.

SPEAKER_03

If we're honest and we go back and in my opinion, take a good look at the mayors that I've known. I started with Mayor Tansler, the first mayor. Um I ran his campaign, was on his staff. Uh Mayor Tansler cleaned the river, the St. John's River. Wow. Everything that's going on in downtown downtown today would not be going on in downtown today had he not done that or somebody did it after him. But he did that. Uh, Mayor Godball, good Lord of Muddy. Uh you can just I I can I've written a book about him. Uh but we have an NFL team in large part because of him. We still have the jazz festival going on because of him. Uh he brought senior citizens uh into the into the real world in Jacksonville and and and to help that mean. Uh Ed Austin had the River City Renaissance. Uh Tommy Missouri got rid of Red Stoves and Claim got the odor out of the air. Uh who's next? Delaney.

SPEAKER_02

Delaney.

SPEAKER_03

John Payton, for God's sake.

SPEAKER_02

Look how he skipped the Republican. Delaney, yeah. They notice.

unknown

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_03

Please don't tell John I left you there.

SPEAKER_02

You know, he's been a repeat guest of my show. He's my favorite mayor of all time, by the way.

SPEAKER_03

That I've known and worked with has done something that we can count on. It's very important for the city and for the future. Um I I'm not sure what Alvin Brown did. And I know what Curry tried to do. I it looks like Donna Digan is Donna Digan has created a new momentum in town that's that's overtaking the Axelville in such a strong way. So I I my answer, I guess, to that question would be I think people are gonna do something. I whoever comes next will find a bar to set, will

JEA Fight And Unsung Heroes

SPEAKER_03

find a mountain to climb, and will handle do something important for this city. It's been pretty consistent since consolidation.

SPEAKER_02

What question do you wish people asked themselves more as they navigate whether it's the political landscape, the social or cultural landscape here in Jacksonville?

SPEAKER_04

Well, when when I'm talking to people who are thinking about running for office or people who come and ask and do that, uh I ha I have a a question uh that kind of is the same thing about what Mike talks about, what the vast majority of the mayors that he talked about. Are you running for office to be somebody, or are you running office to do something? And is it is it uh are you doing it for to enhance public policy opportunities, or are you doing it for personal or political enhancement? Be up front, be transparent about it. I mean, if or are you using it to run for another office? You know, I you know, be upfront about it. And as Mike Tolbert just said, don't lie about it, because the problem is Jackson Mike Tolbert has this thing, you you can never over-communicate with the public. Don't underestimate the public, the voter, to not see true authenticity. And I think the people who get in trouble try to spin it, and the public says, You're not real. And they're the ones that get in trouble because, as Mike said, turn on the lights on the roaches thing. The one thing that one thing that that I've watched Mike over the years and why he's been successful is the candidates that he has told him, be courageous, step up, and be able to defend what you're gonna do, and and I'll help you say it. I mean, it's real thing. I want to go back to something that he said when he talked about which he he mentioned, was one of the things that the three of us all came together on, particularly Mike Teller and I, was there was a moment in time that Jacksonville stood up is when a group of people for self-gain, self-promotion, and a lot of money nearly screwed our city, messed up our city, and tried to sell the JEA. And there were only a handful of people who stepped up against the administration. But there are two people that the three of us said are the real underrated heroes. Kyle Billy, who is the auditor, and Carla Miller. Both those people's professional and personal lives were threatened. And I know that that Mike Mike Tolbert was one of those people that helped bring our group together. But had it not been for those two people who were under incredible personal and professional pressure and threats, w we could have we would have been we would have we would have lost the JEA. Would you not agree, Mike Tolbert?

SPEAKER_03

I do agree. I do agree. And um yeah, it again, i i I go back to the fact that that's an example of how when it when it it gets down to the nitty-gritty, and it's something really, really important. Jackson has a good way of responding. The community seems to be able to come together and understand what's right and what's wrong. Um even when they're not paying attention, you can get if you can get their attention, it they they will do the right thing most most every time.

SPEAKER_02

So I think, in my humble opinion, a lot of what you just said, Mike High Tower, is how I see the success of your podcast. People can smell the BS, and your authenticity comes very much across in the way that you engage with your guests and with your thoughtful provocation of conversation topics. You're not afraid to shy away from what the average Jacksonville resident really wants to know. I don't have the time, effort, or energy to start digging for truth. I want you to be honest with me. I might disagree with you, but I won't lose respect for you. But if I catch you in a lie, it's very hard for me to come back from that.

SPEAKER_04

I I I I I I think that's one of the things that comes back to the three of us, the trust and we don't try to spin. One, we like each other, but we know enough about each other, and we also, what Mike Tulber said, we all three have a love of Jacksonville. So we're sort of in a situation as that we come at it from a different perspective. But I think at the end of the day, people will say, all three of these old guys, there's no question that they love Jacksonville. And they're really, uh I'm hoping they're thinking why uh why they pontificate periodically, or Hightower does, I'll say that, before Talbert does, uh, is that it it's really about Jacksonville, and we have fun with it.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So watch who you call old. We prefer seasoned or silver fox is where I come from.

SPEAKER_04

No, no. I I can say this Talbert is eons year older than I am. So I can I'm supposed to we're supposed to respect our elders, so I try to respect my Talbert.

SPEAKER_02

You have a response to that, Talbert?

SPEAKER_03

I am older than him.

SPEAKER_06

And they're both older than our elderly. Not by much. Not by much.

SPEAKER_02

Right, but you've each invested in Jacksonville in a different way. You started off by saying

Hope, Mentorship, And Youth Voices

SPEAKER_02

that you've seen returns on your investment, which is what keeps you engaged and wanting to see Jacksonville succeed and thrive. What gives you the most hope for Jacksonville's future?

SPEAKER_04

I thought it was a I thought it was a softball question for me. Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, no, no, I don't know. Because I'm I'm hoping one of you all pick up because I'll feel self-serving. If you don't, I will. You should. I I I think one of the things, and and it's only because of it. I I one, I think there are a number of people who do listen to the podcast who still who and I think there's a lot of people who do, even if they only listen to us for a minute or two. I think there's a lot of folks, a whole lot of folks in this town who love Jacksonville, want the best for it, may be frustrated because they're they we may be impatient that we're not as good as we should. So I think to what Mike said, when w when the chips are down, Jacksonville comes together because we really are the biggest little town in America. Everybody is related, which you've probably found out.

SPEAKER_01

That's why I had to move from out of town.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean, it's it is it is still my kids don't marry their cousins.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Well, there's probably yeah, I'm not going to go there.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway. It is the South. But it is.

SPEAKER_04

No, well, hold on. Uh but uh but I think the other thing is we're 844 square miles. Yeah. And when you and I think that's the thing that that Mike Tolbert has at Institute of Now. When those first three or four mayors that he has helped, them just trying to get their head around, trying to be a mayor, which is the largest city geographically in the entire United States. Yes. Continental. Continental. I mean, when you think about it.

SPEAKER_02

With the most diverse population of any other place in this contiguous United States.

SPEAKER_04

Right. I I and I I I just looked it up. If you take just 295, the beltway around Jacksonville, this was before Tansler, Jake, um, even maybe Ed Austin, it's 61 miles around to go around there. Oh wow. From I also found out if you go from Baldwin to the beaches, it's 35 miles. I mean, so you can imagine when you talk about mayors getting together, the challenge you have is being able to get your hands around. But I but I think on the future, you've got a lot of people. Like you, you all have moved here. Hopefully you're not leaving. Um, but I think the other thing is the like the mentoring program that that I've bec had the opportunity to be a part of. There is an understanding with a lot of the youth that they do want Jacksonville to be the next tier. And I think it's up to our generation and the one right under us to encourage that and make sure that they are going to be the decision makers. If you don't like what's going on, step up. If it happens and you haven't done it, don't whine about it.

SPEAKER_05

I think one of the things that I'm going to take a different look at this thing as far as the optimism for the future. One of my frustrations, and I've told this to the guys, and I want to do shows on this if I can, is I want to know what the Millennials, the Gen Zs, and the others are even thinking. I want to know what they want Jacksonville to be like in 20 years from now. And we're not hearing that. It's all going to come to them. He's right. And thank goodness for things like the Emerging Leaders, where they're getting good background on what's going on. Leadership Jacksonville is another organization like that, and all of the other, you know, service organizations that that cater to that. But I want to know what these kids are thinking. And kids and younger adults are thinking and where they want to see this city go.

SPEAKER_02

Do you think they're capable of independent thought if they're siloed in their communities and they're only watching what they want to that's going to agree with what they already thought?

SPEAKER_05

If somebody would ask them.

SPEAKER_04

I'm going to push back on the silos. Both the High Tower Emerging Leaders program, which is in the 10th year, leadership jacks, God, it's got to be in its 30th year. 27. 27. Okay. One of the things that we were always against, silos don't help you move forward.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And that's the thing that and that's that's really, I think, one of the things that you'll hear Tolbert talk about when he's talking and tell when he he's helped mayors on their uh on their speeches. It's talking about, it's about us. It's not about that person. If we're gonna move the city ahead, it's gotta be about us. It can't be about me. And that's that's really what it is. I we're we are unique. We just gotta continue to push, push it.

SPEAKER_02

So it's interesting what you said about the millennials and the Gen Zs, and now it's Gen Alpha, Gen Beta. I have one of these.

SPEAKER_04

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02

It means that I've baked with old eggs.

SPEAKER_04

I I'm I'm I'm not gonna go there.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just saying I have a 14-year-old and an 11-year-old. Wow. And what's interesting is that we covered this briefly, but Mayor John Delaney, who I brought on, he was the most interesting person when I looked back at the history of Jacksonville, having only been here about a decade, right? 11 years ago, we moved here. Um, and I saw the Better Jacksonville plan, and I was fascinated as a New York City born and raised, that there was a mayor who said, I'm gonna raise your taxes, but I promise you, you're not even gonna know about it. You're gonna only experience the positive side of it. And I'm not doing it for today. I'm doing it for my grandkids that aren't even born yet. Is that an opportunity for this generation, the millennials and the Z's who aren't even thinking about marriage and children, for them to contemplate doing something for a generation that is yet to be born, right? I like to refer to Jacksonville as the 30 year overnight success story.

SPEAKER_05

If I may, this is this is very personal with the two of us.

SPEAKER_03

Can I go back and answer your question?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_03

That didn't mean to interrupt. No, you're not never, you know. Let me tell you about a big change I've seen in Jacksonville that I think is very, very important. For a long time, the upper echelon of Jacksonville was a closed society. Uh it was, you know, it I I I'll use the Civic Council as an example of that. The Civic Council used to be a bunch of guys who sat around and drank whiskey with cigars and talked about Jacksonville and what might they do or might not do that might help them. All of a sudden, the Civic Council now has transformed itself because we've got all of this new talent, brain power coming to town, doing things, younger people. And the civic council has now become transparent. It's opened up its arms and brought in that new leadership, working with the old leadership. And that's something, and that happened, that's happened in all a lot of places, not just the civic council. And I think that that's one of the things that will make Jackson go much stronger as we go forward. That's one of the reasons I have hope about what's going on. That's well said.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And that's one of the things that we try to do within the Emerging Leaders is we have people from the Civic Council once a month, and they this group they spend a year together, but then we have anywhere from seven to nine speakers behind closed doors. It's it's Vegas. Whatever goes on said there. And they get to ask any questions about these leaders, young or old. You know, if you had to do over again, what were your lessons learned? What what advice would you have as a young person? Then the more breaking down those silos, which is by and Mike is absolutely right. And Mike has been helpful to the Civic Council, bring that transparency. And the more that we can take the mystique out of this, that we're gonna break down silos, reach out, reach out across the city. We've got big challenges, but you know, the mayor just shared with us it's there somewhere over a hundred people a day are moving to Jacksonville.

SPEAKER_07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

I mean Yes, I know 25 from New York that moved here last month.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, wow. Yeah, and all these people are on the are also on the road at the same time I'm trying to go someplace, by the way.

SPEAKER_02

So I don't want to hear about traffic from Jacksonville's as a New Yorker who had to get through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel two and a half miles from my apartment to my office that took me an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So don't complain to me about the traffic problems. We can talk about transportation anytime you want to.

SPEAKER_06

There you go.

SPEAKER_02

There's a that's my pet peeve here in Jacksonville. Um, but when you think about looking ahead and you have this optimism, and I too have the same optimism, like I said, I'm raising my kids here. I am not planning to leave here, I'm planning to retire here

Riverfront Parks And City Identity

SPEAKER_02

and continue to invest in the city. The idea that if I'm sitting on the St. John's River in a decade from now, with you three, and we're talking about the possibilities that came to fruition that you're the most impressed by, what do you think those would look like?

SPEAKER_08

Wow. Mr.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not sure. Can you repeat the question?

SPEAKER_02

When we're sitting on the St. John's River in ten years from now, the four of us, and I'm asking you, what did you think came to pass that you're the most impressed by, but not surprised by, what would that be?

SPEAKER_08

During that decade, during the next decade? Yep. We're sitting on the St.

SPEAKER_03

John's River. One thing I'm already really impressed by that's I think it's only gonna magnify itself, and that's the parks that we're playing on the same river on the river in downtown. Um that's that's changing Jacksonville a great deal. Uh a little history. Before the Jacksonville Landing was built uh back in the 80s, Mayor Godball tried to take that piece of land that's now riverfront park and do the same thing. There was a road that ran down the river called Coastline Drive from the rural uh building all the way down to almost city hall. And you needed to close that road in order to make that a riverfront park. And the council wouldn't close the road, so we didn't get to do the riverfront park, but we did the landing. But now that that park is there, and that's transforming Jacksonville and the one across, I mean the ones across the river and the ones down the river. That's that's a new Jacksonville for me. Uh and and it is it is it's it's not only about a place where people go playing, it's an attitude changer. It gives you a different perspective on where you live. And and I think that's gonna have a big impact over the next 10 years. It's only gonna get bigger and better.

SPEAKER_05

Despite what one city council member thinks about parts. Yeah. Who won't remain down there? Who won't remain there in six years or five years? You won't have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think Mike brings up a really good point. One of the things that that when you kind of look back over the years, one of the things that it took us a long time, and Mike talked about what Tansler did and then what Jake did for downtown, was this you're from New York. You you you have a river. We do we use, we put all of our public buildings and all our garages on the river. We didn't realize what an incredible asset the St. John's River is. I mean, it is just extraordinary. So when you go back, when you talk about the mayors that that Mike has worked with over the years, Godbo, Tansler, uh, you know, John the Johns, uh it was about the river and the river, and then you had the beaches. We have so much natural treasures and our natural resources. And I think that's I agree with Mike. It's it's about downtown on the river, but it is about, as the mayor says, we got more than 100 people moving here. They are coming from some of the places that don't have a river, that don't have a beach, that don't have parks, and they are falling in love with this with this town. You said you've been here 10 years.

SPEAKER_02

So when I got here 11 years ago, one of the things that immediately called to me was exactly what you described. I was originally one of the redevelopment specialists in downtown Brooklyn when it went from warehouses and factories to being a beautiful residential redevelopment. And I came down here because I thought, I mean, downtown, no one tells you that it's not anything until you get there or you're from here. When you're an out-of-towner like me, I got there and I immediately saw those three bridges. I immediately saw the opportunity for what was a battery park to be, which is now one of those riverside parks, what a Madison Square Park could be, what a Central Park could be. There was so much opportunity that I could see what the future could look like. It was only people who were five generations Jacksonville that were telling me I was crazy. And I kept saying, no, you just don't have the imagination. I'm waiting for the other people who believe in Jacksonville to join me because I'm raising my kids here. So I have to believe that those people will show up, and they did. They showed up in full force. So I don't really pay too much attention to city councils, and I don't pay too much attention necessarily to mayors as much as I do the grassroots belief that Jacksonville has in itself more than probably ever before. What do you think changed that transformed people's ability to believe in themselves?

SPEAKER_04

I I'm gonna throw this to Mike Talbert, and this is a thing. Mike, explain to us and to the audience the importance of having Ursay

The Night Jacksonville Came Together

SPEAKER_04

come to Jacksonville and land in the Gator Ball.

SPEAKER_02

Well, if you go back, uh Oh, my husband's a Ravens fan, he's gonna be so mad.

SPEAKER_03

Pride that night. Pride that night in 1979. Jacksonville had a pretty bad attitude about itself. People didn't like living here. People when you when people came from out of town and moved to Jacksonville, they loved it. But the people who lived here had a bad attitude. Where God will one of his primary objectives was to change the attitude of people who lived in Jacksonville. Help them enjoy their community, find out what Jacksonville really is about. And so when Ursay came and landed in the helicopter in August of 1979, and it were 50,000 people who showed up with five days' notice, we changed the community. And they were all cheering for the same thing. There were rich people and poor people, black people, white people, old people, young people. The Times Union editorialized after that for the first time in Jacksonville's collective history, the whole town came together to root for a single thing. Wow. To want to go in the same direction. And that that was the beginning of changing the attitude. You have to do it constantly.

SPEAKER_00

Like sourdough. Huh? Like sourdough.

SPEAKER_03

We've had some gaps. Yeah, we've had some gaps. But for the most part, uh today, I I sense today that people who love Jacksonville have a better attitude about Jacksonville than they have in the last, I don't know, uh 25, 30 years, at least if not longer.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Like I said, 30-year overnight success story. I didn't know about Jacksonville, and once I knew about Jacksonville, people ask me all the time from New York, what do you think? Because as a New York Jew, I only knew Boca to Miami. I didn't know there was any other part of Florida. And so when Ben got his job offer here, I told him, I don't do Vills and I don't do Berg's, and you're gonna have to commute because I'm having my baby in Delray Beach. Once I came to visit, I couldn't not keep seeing what the opportunities that were still available are. And now, like the mayor said, a hundred people a day. It's one of the fastest growing cities in the country, and we're finding not just campuses that are opening up here, but companies that are relocating over here because they see the potential for quality of life, cost of living,

Homestead Exemption Warning For Services

SPEAKER_02

and the community that cares about itself.

SPEAKER_05

Can I do a political commercial?

SPEAKER_02

I would love that.

SPEAKER_05

As we talk about the future and what we would like it to be and what we hope we will become and all the rest of that kind of stuff, I've got to tell you that there's a measure that we're gonna be facing in November, which can have an incredible impact on either our success or our stagnation going forward. This homestead exemption proposal that's been put on the ballot. And we talked about it with the mayor yesterday, right? Tuesday when we when we did the podcast with her. The idea of not just how much revenue we're going to lose, which by the way comes up to about $300 million a year, but, and I keep harping on this, what's little known about that proposal is that the cities are restricted from spending any advalorm or property taxes on a number of things, except for about eight different categories that are spelled out. Every social program, every affordability program, libraries, all of that type of stuff. As off limits. Are off limits from any ad valorem taxes being spent on it because of this measure.

SPEAKER_02

Would you be willing to write something up specific to that from your perspective to put in the show notes? Because I too am very passionate about that particular idea. Um I think that people are misunderstanding. Yes, we all want to lower taxes, but you're not really paying the short-term attention or long-term, especially when it comes to affordable housing. It's only people that are homesteaded. Most of the Jacksonville residents are renters.

SPEAKER_05

So if we're the way we'll see increases in the range of things.

SPEAKER_02

So the the trickle-down effect is tragic, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04

I don't think it's a trickle-down. The mayor made it real clear is when you realize how much of the budget right now goes for safety. Yeah. 50 percent over and and and and certain debt service. It's just more than 50 percent is just for fire police and that. And then you take the debt service. So that $300 million ends up being about a quarter, if not a third, of the budget. So the only thing that gets cut are those things that we just talked about and what Mike Talbert just talked about, that is causing this enthusiasm to come downtown and be excited about a park.

SPEAKER_05

They are we are restricted from spending any money on anything that improves our quality of life.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. That's that's what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_02

What would be a nice succinct way to run that 30-second ad, Mike Miller, so that people could understand the severity of what this is.

SPEAKER_04

I I think we can uh we'll rustle Mr. Talbert to the ground. Mr. Talbert can help us with that message.

SPEAKER_02

What was the question? How can we succinctly paraphrase what the impact of that vote of the homestead property tax would be if we were to create a 30-second commercial go?

SPEAKER_03

I'm not I'm not really sure. I see a drowning person uh no life re um.

SPEAKER_02

That's pretty visceral.

SPEAKER_03

Uh but I I'm not sure. I I th uh I it it's it it's an abomination. Yeah, and I don't uh I don't need to add anything you guys have said. It's it's it's just idiocy. And it it's if it would it will it will take Jacksonville, which is a first class city, and make it a third rate city if that thing passes.

SPEAKER_04

Uh periodically, uh former the late great former Jake Godbull will do a letter to Mike Tolbert. He'll send a letter to Mike Tolbert. I think it's time that Jake Godbull, we get a letter from Jake Godbull who helped help with was part of consolidation and helped put that thing. Because nobody can talk about when you think about, as Mike said, what Tansler and the guys, the first city council did who did it for public service, public service and and what between Tansler and what Jake laid the groundwork that these other mayors picked up on. All that that was laid the groundwork and what consolidation was supposed to do for a quality of life, this will take it all away. Will take away all of that.

SPEAKER_02

I hope you guys would be willing to come back and do another episode on just this topic. Sure. Because I would really love to expand and explore this particular topic so that we can break it down for the millennials and the Gen Z and the Gen Alphas and those brand new voters who don't even know that they are not going to be owning a home for the next 30 years of their lives anyway, but they think that they know what they're talking about. So I do hope you'll come back if we'd be renters.

Closing Reflections And Honorable Mensch

SPEAKER_02

And the renters, yes. So as we wrap up today's conversation, I keep coming back.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Affordable housing has become one of my um top issues. And as as we talk about property taxes, it's you you you said it, you closed this out really uh beautifully because we talked about the opportunities with the leadership and the younger generation that's really taking an initiative, as well as the opportunities for where we could be really dropping the ball without understanding the particulars and the details. And as we wrap up today's conversation, I keep coming back to something I said at the beginning. I didn't start a podcast because I thought the world needed another microphone. Maybe another mic, but not another microphone. I started one because I thought the world needed more listening. We live in an age where everyone seems to be talking at the same time, and we can consume headlines in seconds, form opinions in minutes, and move on before we've even considered another perspective. But podcasts ask something different of us. They ask us to slow down, to stay curious, to let someone finish a thought, and maybe change our minds. What struck me most about today's conversation isn't simply the decades of experience you three gentlemen bring to the table. It's something much simpler respect for each other, for the city, and for the responsibility we all share to leave Jacksonville better than we found it. As a mom raising two kids here, that's the Jacksonville I want my kids to inherit. A city where people can disagree without becoming disagreeable, where relationships matter more than rhetoric. My husband spends his career asking hard questions because democracy depends on accountability. I spend mine asking different questions because community depends on understanding. And the truth is we need both. We need people willing to uncover what's broken, and we need people willing to shine a light on what's working. Because if all we ever see are the problems, we forget there's an awful lot worth protecting. And for now that, we need all three of you, Mike. So thank you for spending years helping people understand Jacksonville and helping me understand something bigger than just myself. Cities aren't built by buildings, they're built by conversations, they're built by relationships and by people who continue showing up long after the applause ends. So thank you, Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert, and Mike Miller for lending us not only your wisdom, but your friendship.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02

And now it's time for our honorable mention. Thank you. Thank you. Mensch is the Yiddish word for a person who shows up with integrity, responsibility, and heart. Today's honorable mensch isn't one person. It's the people who choose curiosity over certainty. It's the listeners, the people who aren't afraid to challenge their own assumptions, who understand that listening isn't passive. It's an act of respect. You're the kind of people who ask thoughtful questions, not because you're looking to win an argument, but because you're looking to understand another perspective. You recognize that every guest is more than a headline, a job title, a political party, or a social media post. You know that behind every opinion is a lifetime of experience that shaped it. You make room for nuance in a world that rewards absolutes. You stay for the full conversation instead of settling for the clip. You understand that disagreement doesn't have to mean disrespect. And you believe that strong communities are built one conversation at a time. And if you've listened to one episode or every episode of Shmooze with Seuss, you've become part of a community that values culture, values, identity, and genuine human connection. So today, the honorable mench belongs to the listeners. And if you have not yet listened to the three mics on mic, today is a great day to start. That will do it for us. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Shemoze with Suze. If you feel this conversation made you think, feel, or see something a little differently, share it because these conversations matter. Follow along on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube for your daily dose of chutzbah. I'm Suze, your well informed smartass, reminding you what's an envelope if not for pushing. Stay inspired and inspiring.